Streamline EV Network Projects

00:00:06 Todd

Creating an effective EV electrical vehicle network can be a complex task. During a recent Nikkei convention, I asked Mike Shumway, strategic account manager for Graybar Renewables in the Southwest, to come on the show and talk me through the process.

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Mike is driving electrification by empowering electrical contractors to succeed in the EV charging space.

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Mike collaborates with clients to develop innovative strategies and navigate the complex challenges with EV charging infrastructure.

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Mike is also focused on helping electrical contractors succeed in this growing market by providing them with the resources and support they need.

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Welcome to keeping the lights on.

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I'm your host, Todd Reed, and on this show I connect with the owners and pros who design, build and maintain our electrical communications.

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Industrial world to explore the best ways forward.

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Hey, real quick request before the show starts.

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I would really appreciate a for you for your help as I grow this show. If you could take a moment to subscribe or follow and also leave a five star rating a thumbs up or whatever on your favorite podcast player and on YouTube.

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I'd really appreciate that.

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All right. It's enough of that.

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Let's get into the show.

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All right.

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If myself or one of the you know audience members or to visit you in your hometown, where might you take them out to eat?

00:01:33 Michael

It's good.

00:01:34 Michael

Let's go to Chula. Chula Seafood is the place.

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Julie siebel.

00:01:38 Michael

Yeah. Chula Seafood is actually headquartered out in San Diego and it's all all the fish is brought in fresh from San Diego. I think the day or day before so.

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Oh, OK.

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Really fresh stuff really.

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It's kind of like a fast casual place. So you go up to the front, you order sit down, OK?

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Yeah, that's. That's where I think.

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00:02:00 Todd

But it's not in San Diego, right?

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In OK.

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It's in Phoenix, but they have.

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Here as well.

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So yeah, they transported, but I'm sure it's flown daily or something over there. To Phoenix, yeah.

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Something like that I would think.

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Trucked out.

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I got to ask more questions next time I'm there.

00:02:14 Todd

Yeah. Yeah, it'd be.

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I look them up a little bit and saw that they were out here in San Diego and I was like, oh man, maybe I should go because it's rare. I get to go to the place that my guest, you know, talks about because I'm usually remote, but anyway.

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Do you like to get there?

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I usually go for a pokey bowl of some sort.

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Have a Hawaiian pokey bowl that's in my.

00:02:28 Todd

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Go to Korean.

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See, that's, you know, maybe a little spicier if you want a little flare.

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And then I always start off by getting.

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Think it's like.

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Candied salmon. It's like kind of a jerky style.

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It's really sweet and you just need, like, a bite of it, and it's kind of expensive too. So you just get like, a little bit and you share.

00:02:45 Todd

Oh wow.

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And it's good way to start your.

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That sounds awesome.

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Yeah, I also looked.

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They did a little bit about sustainable fishing and stuff, so it sounds.

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There's.

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Little bit, yeah, a little so conscious globally conscious companies.

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I think yeah, it's kind of cool.

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Good. Yeah.

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Topic of our conversation today too, yes.

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Cool story exactly.

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Which, yeah, which kind of ties us into what?

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Talking about.

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So I guess I want to talk to you about.

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EV charging and like what are some of the main challenges that contractors and end users are facing with EV charging technology?

00:03:20 Michael

Yeah. And I guess in regards to the technology itself.

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A lot of the challenges today are.

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The the Chargers remaining resilient and and having issues with maintenance and repairs down the line.

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Even on the software side, it's not just a hardware issue, but charge of reliability is a big thing.

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And so that's that's leading into more and more end users kind of.

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Shying away from the topic and and contractors need to be more selective of who they're working with from a vendor perspective and from a software network perspective.

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So that's been a challenge. And then on the functionality side.

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Side of things, there's all this funding out there.

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One of the biggest drivers for electric vehicle charging, yeah.

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I'd put it up there with consumer demand and the buy in from automakers and massive investment for.

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More affordable vehicles, more models out there, but the but the funding has been kind of slow to come out in some instances.

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So it's it's important to know, you know, set expectations for those end users as a contractor and you know as a distributor, as a manufacturer, you know.

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As a team with those contractors to set the right expectation for end users.

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That they're not sitting waiting, wishing that the funding was coming through.

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Yeah, it'll come.

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Just it could take a while.

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What I'm hearing.

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What about the the number of manufacturers out there and the software and all that? Is that kind of a hindrance to getting it going?

00:04:50 Michael

I wouldn't call it a.

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It's honestly it's great because you have all these options, but it's hard to vet them out and that's part of the importance of having a lot of key partners in the industry for, you know, for an end user, if they're able to find experts out there that they.

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Yeah, I'm.

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I wouldn't call it.

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It's nice to have those options and everybody's kind of feeding off of each other, creating new innovation, so there's there's not really a playbook, Ed 101 book today because everything's just changing.

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Fast. Well, right?

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Yeah, it's an evolving technology.

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Always will.

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But so new that it's kind of hard to know what to do there so.

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Well, not only is there a lot of different products and one of the reasons for that is that not every end user needs the same thing, right?

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That's a variety of.

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In use cases and I wonder if you can maybe spend a little bit of time talking to kind of the challenges and different needs of end users and their sites.

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So I mean.

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I put.

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7-8 different verticals out there. I guess we can focus in on a couple of the individual ones.

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When we think about like an automotive dealership, auto dealerships out there, a lot of them with band aids to include EV charging on their properties.

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In order to receive shipment of their electric vehicles.

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So struggle is they're not getting shipment of electric vehicles unless they install these stations, right?

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They want to continue to build this business.

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Know that demand is there, however.

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Let's say from a utility perspective, they need a new service in order to install the DC fast charging stations that are being required by their by their OEM in order to receive or in order to install those stations.

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And then receive shipment eventually.

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So it's just this long process sometimes of whether they're being hung up on funding or they're being hung up by, you know, getting the necessary upgrades from the utility side of the make.

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It's just slowing down the process.

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Of and I guess that because they would need more charges obviously than me and my home.

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They're going to need their utility needs will be.

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Different real quick on the I'm glad you brought that up.

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Car dealers are they installing?

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Just obviously, if you're selling them, you kind of need to have them there to charge those and kind of keep them going.

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But are those also available to like users, like drivers of the car? Like I could pull up?

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That how they do that?

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Are they usually kind of kept for their inventory?

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You'll have some back of the house. You'll have some in front.

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Front of the house. I'll get a big.

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So a lot of them, yeah, they want to have Ed drivers come in and EV drivers have different makes and models.

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Come in and charge and maybe they are able to gather data from those drivers and send them information on their on new models that are coming out.

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Oh, sure.

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Get them to come in and upgrade.

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Actually, that's really that's really.

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Actually, you know 'cause you don't get that with gas stations. You get that interesting. OK.

00:07:34 Michael

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Can you maybe talk about a couple other injuries?

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About car dealerships.

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What a couple other end users and their.

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Yeah. I mean, one of the biggest segments right now for for EV charging is.

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You see it all over the place and this is where I think even in like my hometown of Phoenix, we're seeing a lot of more.

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Lot more multifamily property installing this.

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Yeah, I imagine you.

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Mean when you think about.

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The the must haves for.

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Navy driver up top of that list is charging at home.

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And there's a lot of folks that don't have that luxury that still drive electric vehicles, rely on fast charging.

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But if I'm between 2 multi family properties for my next apartment.

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10 out of 10 times I'm choosing the apartment that has EV charging.

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It has, you know.

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Even if it's for a premium, a couple extra $100 a.

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Month I was going to ask would they charge?

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That usually probably.

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And they'll usually charge for it, at least to cover the cost of electricity.

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But yeah, it's multi family.

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Property. You know the rain to, to raise rents and attract that that new demographic of tenant, right?

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It's more of a requirement now than ever to have.

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EV charging on multiple properties.

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So the opportunity there, I would imagine for contractors as if they were working on like existing like we're in San Diego and there are so many multi family you know some church like Phoenix, right?

00:08:54 Michael

Yeah, it's blowing up, yeah.

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Beautiful area.

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So, but there's a good opportunity to install in current locations and then also obviously new ones that are being built, yeah.

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00:09:04 Michael

All kinds of insulation.

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Good opportunities. Any other end users that you can think of that stand out to? You said you have like 7 but any others that you know you'd want to talk about here?

00:09:11 Michael

I mean, on the topic of fast charging, let's look at highway corridors. A lot of the funding that's out there today through the infrastructure investment in JOBS Act you've got.

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You've got your your CFI discretionary grant program totaling up to that 7 1/2 billion dollars.

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Earmarked and in federal funding.

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So that nevi program, that $5 billion for nevi is all for Hwy. 4 doors DC fast charging.

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And so it'll this is going to bridge the gap for a lot of EV drivers. Who are, you know, maybe.

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The plan is to have them 50 miles apart, right?

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Oh, really? OK.

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There's that.

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So you can get through those rural areas with your EV and making it more of a.

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Kind of a traditional style of fueling, if you will.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So it's difficult for those fueling and convenience stations for any quick serve restaurants. Anyone who's going after that funding.

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To to make their way through that process. And so they need to rely on the right partners to help them through that application process and ensure that they're, you know, applying with the.

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00:10:15 Michael

Right, with the right kinds of vendors that have the material that have the charging equipment and the software that's gonna lead them through this process in the long run to have success in being awarded.

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Right.

00:10:26 Todd

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I'll say.

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That's probably not anybody, but can most any kind of company or are they looking for that nevy funds to for the corridors they're looking for private entities to kind of look for this money, right?

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They're not going to put them in like rest.

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Not going to be state-run. Things are going to be like private individuals saying, hey, we want to put it at our restaurant or in our gas station or whatever, OK.

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Right, right.

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That's a huge piece of it, yes.

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Interesting. OK.

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So any anyone and it's 80% of the total project cost is covered by that.

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Oh wow, is that money being used, right, right now, or is it still kind of in the procurement?

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Mean the allocation process.

00:11:06 Michael

Yeah, and it depends by the state.

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So some of it's starting to finally come, come out, but a lot of these states, they're even having to go.

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Read take a new run at their plan and put it out.

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So it depends state by state, but we're seeing some of it come out just slowly so.

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Yeah, well, this leads us perfect in my next.

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Like so, how do you start to? How do they navigate the complexities of incentive availability and project approvals for this kind of thing?

00:11:34 Michael

Yeah. And I think really important to partner with the right folks from the start. And once you choose, you know your vendor, that's often times a a great partner to help you navigate through those incentive programs.

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May have grant writing teams.

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They may have folks that are completely dedicated to.

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Funding and so helping you navigate that process and setting the right expectations. If I'm a contractor, setting the right expectations for my customer is huge, because if I promise this incentive is something that they're eligible for or it's something that they can receive.

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And the next six months, but then come to learn that we're not on schedule with funding and that actually, oh, you don't meet this requirement for an end user.

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A tough thing to hear when you find out that, oh, this wait. You want me to shell out this amount of money rather than?

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Having 80% of the project cost.

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00:12:23 Todd

Wow, so.

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You're talking about partners. You're talking like distribution manufacturers.

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I mean consultants out there that do this too, so OK.

00:12:30 Michael

Right. Sure, yeah.

00:12:34 Todd

What a couple, I don't know.

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I think you spoke on this very topic here at Nikka this year, right?

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One reason I'm talking to.

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So you have a long presentation about this, but obviously we don't have a lot of time, but maybe I don't know what are a couple strategies that would you you'd recommend for overcoming like operational and maintenance challenges and EV projects?

00:12:50 Michael

Yeah. Now and has been concerned like we talked about earlier too, you know the.

00:12:55 Michael

The the repair and maintenance side operational side of EV charging is where you insure the long term success of your project.

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So going into any project with with a good plan for the LNM work is is.

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You know you want to align yourselves with the with the manufacturers that maybe have a a network for.

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Workers where if you have any maintenance or repair needs in the future as an end user, you put in a ticket with.

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Your charging network provider and they dispatch an onm partner out to come diagnose.

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Or even, you know, real time monitoring on that station where they can have predictive maintenance take.

00:13:30 Todd

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Maintenance manuals and understand you know what's going on with the.

00:13:36 Todd

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Why is it down and dispatch the right person to come out and fix it so?

00:13:43 Todd

Yeah, I mean, that's the beauty about the charging. I've talked about a couple other you know manufacturers.

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Much data.

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It's kind of like built on data, so it's not we're not having to add it.

00:13:50 Michael

00:13:52 Todd

There, when they build the product, so that's really cool.

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00:13:56 Todd

All right, this kind of this is stepping back to where we were talking about selecting.

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And there's a variety of choices and all.

00:14:01 Todd

So again, maybe just a couple of tips on how can contractors and end users kind of start to ensure that they're selecting the right technology and hardware for their specific needs?

00:14:11 Todd

Alright, let's step back to you know, creating the project and choosing so. So how can contractors end users, you know, ensure that they are selecting the right.

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And hardware for their specific needs.

00:14:24 Michael

Yeah. I mean, a lot of this starts with frequent and.

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Early communication with the end user to fully understand what the use case is.

00:14:33 Todd

00:14:33 Michael

Who's going to be using this station?

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How many? How many stations are you looking?

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So identify the project scope to start like project and assessment planning phase and having a good checklist to create a road map of work with that customer to then make the right recommendation for.

00:14:42 Todd

00:14:49 Michael

Ed. Charging technology for the right hardware, whether it's level 2 or Level 3 at the most basic level and then including software.

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00:14:57 Michael

Understand the different value propositions that apply to your.

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And help to apply those through making a recommendation for the right charging network that offers those kinds of features, benefits that the customer is looking for.

00:15:12 Michael

I mean, you want to scale it properly, right?

00:15:14 Todd

00:15:15 Michael

Having an understanding of.

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You know how many EV drivers there are in your geography is a good place to start.

00:15:21 Michael

You know, like in the topic of.

00:15:23 Michael

Like it's pretty easy to figure out how many of your residents have EV charged or have electric vehicles.

00:15:28 Todd

OK. Yeah.

00:15:29 Michael

Going forward and.

00:15:30 Michael

And again, this is something that you can work with your partners to achieve its understanding how many chargers are recommended for this many electric vehicles on property so then also from the perspective of like deciding between level 2 and Level 3 charging understand the different value propositions that.

00:15:39 Todd

00:15:48 Michael

00:15:49 Michael

Sector that you're in like 5 men feeling inconvenience from a.

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On a highway corridor.

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And I just want something easy and and something that I don't have to make significant significant.

00:16:00 Michael

Maybe I'm thinking about level 2 charging, but when you think about the folks that are going to use level 2 charging, they're not going to end up stopping at a.

00:16:02 Todd

00:16:07 Michael

Of feeling and feeling.

00:16:08 Todd

So is level 2 a slower ear? Slower charge?

00:16:11 Michael

Yeah, it's your A/C charging station. You gain anywhere from.

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00:16:15 Michael

Probably depending on any kind of load shedding 16 to 50 miles of range per hour of charge.

00:16:23 Todd

00:16:23 Michael

So this is that's more.

00:16:25 Todd

It's more for home and home or a night type of thing.

00:16:28 Michael

Workplace. Yeah, other commercial anywhere.

00:16:29 Todd

Oh, OK.

00:16:30 Michael

Spending a few hours or.

00:16:32 Todd

Gotcha. OK.

00:16:35 Todd

Right.

00:16:36 Todd

Just evaluating, just like any project, just kind of really asking the right questions, I guess is the key here.

00:16:43 Todd

So this is pretty new technology. Are there training and certifications for contractors who want to do this?

00:16:48 Todd

Of work? Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:49 Michael

So starting with EV charging manufacturers, these these companies often have certification courses in order to be qualified to install their product.

00:17:00 Michael

00:17:01 Michael

Take it a step.

00:17:02 Michael

There is certification courses within the industry that set you up as a professional professional in the EVs installation space. So evitp electric vehicle infrastructure training program, that is.

00:17:06 Todd

00:17:10

00:17:17 Michael

A certification course that covers everything from the infrastructure side to specific installations of specific charging stations.

00:17:26 Michael

It's actually a.

00:17:28 Michael

Nika and IBEW were were major contributors in the in the origin of this certification program.

00:17:35 Michael

Since we are here.

00:17:35 Michael

Nakuru today.

00:17:38 Todd

I think I might have seen something about that in one of the booths or something. So.

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00:17:43 Todd

All right, you've mentioned a few.

00:17:45 Todd

Like the key partnerships mainly with, you know, manufacturers and distributors.

00:17:49 Michael

Right.

00:17:50 Todd

Obviously there's the training that's available, but all right.

00:17:53 Todd

How does a contractor get?

00:17:54 Todd

They've heard this like, hey, I want to do.

00:17:56 Todd

Want to up my game a little?

00:17:57 Todd

In the EV world, so.

00:17:58 Michael

00:17:58 Todd

What next couple of steps for them?

00:18:00 Michael

I mean starting to work with your your.

00:18:02 Michael

Distributors that you work with already, the majority of electrical distributors are have key.

00:18:04 Todd

00:18:07 Michael

It would the top EV charging vendors so starting there and establishing yourself as a contractor that does EVSC installs could help you find the optimal pricing Co marketing opportunities.

00:18:09 Todd

00:18:19 Michael

Even lead generation or lead sharing from these manufacturers so often times you know in a distribution setting we'll have leads shared with us from our manufacturers and we need to find.

00:18:22 Todd

Oh, really? OK.

00:18:30 Michael

Someone to help install the stations.

00:18:32 Michael

So it gives us the opportunity to bring our contractors business, which we'd love to do and same thing from the manufacturer's point of view, not all of them go through distribution, but it's a vast majority. Now the top players in the evse space.

00:18:33

00:18:47 Michael

Are selling through the channel and going through distribution, relying on partners like Raybar so so partner with those distributors to understand the opportunities.

00:18:51 Todd

00:18:56 Michael

00:18:57 Michael

The vendors are OK, great.

00:18:59 Todd

Well, I like to closeout with kind of just one more question about you, Mike.

00:19:04 Todd

What's refocus on the why of what we?

00:19:05 Todd

So what motivates you to do this day in and day out?

00:19:08 Todd

Keeps you excited and passionate about what you do.

00:19:10 Michael

Yeah, you know I love.

00:19:11 Michael

Of the people that I work with, I love getting to go out and establish new connections with contractors and end users in this space. And honestly, at the end of the day, it's these folks that have so much knowledge and are experts in this industry and experts in.

00:19:17

00:19:25 Michael

Electrical industry experts around Graybar.

00:19:27 Michael

So just my curiosity is peaked every day.

00:19:30 Michael

Coming to work and just love to learn new.

00:19:33 Michael

So this is the perfect industry for it. And over the last couple of years.

00:19:35

00:19:37 Michael

I've been in.

00:19:38 Michael

Evse space, it's always.

00:19:40 Michael

There's always something new to figure out.

00:19:41

00:19:43 Todd

Well, Mike, thank you so much for taking the time out of the busy.

00:19:45 Todd

And I know you've had a lot of things to do, so I appreciate you doing that. And I know the audience is going to really like some of the insights you shared today.

00:19:51 Todd

Thanks.

00:19:51 Michael

Thank you so much for having me on.

00:19:53 Todd

00:19:53 Michael

Like, well, that.

00:19:55 Todd

Was my conversation with Mike Shumway, strategic account manager for Graybar Renewables in the South.

00:20:00 Todd

You can connect with Mike and what he's working on by heading to the links in the show notes.

00:20:05 Todd

Hey I would love to hear how you're helping your customers install and plan for EV projects.

00:20:10 Todd

Shoot me an e-mail at podcast graybar.com.

00:20:13 Todd

Hey, real quick, if you've enjoyed this episode or the show, please, you can help us grow.

00:20:18 Todd

By subscribing or following and leaving a five star rating or a thumbs up in your favorite podcast player and on YouTube.

00:20:25 Todd

Hey, thanks for listening to this show. Keeping the lights on.

00:20:29 Todd

We'll see you next time.

00:20:30

00:20:36 Todd

So what advice would you give to 18 year old Mike?

00:20:39 Michael

Oh man, that's.

00:20:40 Michael

Question but I don't.

00:20:43 Michael

I guess the biggest thing that I would go back and tell myself is to do the hard work.

00:20:48 Michael

It's gonna pay off in the long run.

00:20:50 Michael

Makes everything a whole lot easier.

00:20:52 Todd

00:20:52 Michael

Something that I've.

00:20:53 Michael

Learned in these early stages of my career is that.

00:20:56 Michael

I just.

00:20:57 Michael

Do it.

00:20:58 Michael

Get it over.

00:20:58 Michael

Take everything a lot easier.

00:21:00 Todd

It'll be better in the long. Yeah, that's good. That's good advice.

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