10 Surprising Things That Impact Your Lighting with Lisa Reed

Todd (00:00)

Great lighting to me not only ensures a comfortable usable experience for the users of the building space, but can also bring a space alive, showcasing the design, beauty, and elevating the neighborhood of where the building sits. This topic of lighting became forefront in my life when a very close friend of mine at the time switched her major from architecture at the University of Kansas to architectural engineering with an emphasis in lighting design. Through osmosis, I started to learn that lighting is much more than just throwing a lot of light into the space.

So she's now been lighting for nearly 35 years and is as passionate about lighting since the day she started. She has worked for other companies, other design firms, she has since now started her own design firm and has grown her company organically as well as purchased and merged two other firms to grow the impact that she and her team are making on the architectural world. I'm so excited to have Lisa Reed, founder, principal, and CEO of Reed Burkett Light and Design on the show.

Lisa will talk today about a few of the top 10 surprising things that you should bring to the attention of a lighting designer on any project. So can you answer the question in the manner that proverbial 30 minute elevator? 30 minutes? Great. Well, we don't have time for I can't. OK, let's throw it over on that one. The 30 second ⁓ elevator ride. Answering the question, who is Lisa Reed?

Lisa (01:15)

⁓

I like to say it this way. I have been a daughter for 55 years. I've been a sister for 49 years. I've been a wife for 33 years. I've been a mother for 24 years. I've been a business owner for 14 years. think we, maybe more women than men. I don't know, but I define myself

in relationship to other people.

Todd (02:01)

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Visit graybar.com by clicking on the link in the show notes or contact your Graybar sales representative today to find the latest selection of LEDs to make the switch and stay compliant. Welcome to Keeping the Lights On. I'm your host, Todd Reed, and on this show I connect with the owners and pros who design, build, and maintain our electrical, communications, and industrial world to explore the best ways forward. Hey, be sure to rate and subscribe on your preferred platform and of course,

share the episodes with your friends. Let's get into the show.

So I like start out each episode, as I've told you, with the meals that bring us together, because that's how people can share ideas freely and a little bit more relaxed. So if one of the listeners or audience members were to visit you, where would you take them in your home?

Lisa (03:23)

If someone asks me where I want to go eat, I almost always say Cyrano's Cafe. And the first reason why I say that is it's downstairs. So it takes me a minute to get there. But the second reason is it's really, it's really good. And there's indoor outdoor seating and I love them. share a building so we know each other and it's a little bit of a

think it's a little bit of a sleeper, so it's usually not too crowded and it's just a good place. I like it a lot.

Todd (04:01)

to share a meal there. So that's cool. second time doing that on the show. that's really fun. I had a guest, Adam Ketterer, who you know, and his favorite place, you know, up there in Ferguson. So we went there and ate there and stuff. Yeah, that was fun. So, all right. So we're going to do that. well, what's your favorite place? Favorite place. What's your favorite thing to get there?

Lisa (04:03)

As we actually get to do that.

Okay, so you have to, I was gonna ask if you had done that.

Okay, well, I don't know if I have a favorite thing. I tend to get the veggie burger, no bun and fries. But I tell people to always ask what the trio is if you're having lunch there because it's a really good special, especially it's really good if you can't decide what to have because it's a small salad, a small sandwich and a small soup. So you get the trio and it's a really great price. But besides that,

What they're really known for are their desserts and they have the best bread pudding, which is ridiculous because I wouldn't even say I like bread pudding. They have the best bread pudding, so you have to get that.

Todd (05:08)

Okay, there you go. Well, while we're in CERNOs, obviously one of the things that we notice when we walk into a place, I do now because we've been married for 33 years or known each other longer than that. So your lighting ⁓ stuff has rubbed off on me. So, you know, walking to CERNOs in any place we go and we look up and look around at the lighting. And sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, you know, and there's some things that we're like, ⁓ my goodness. And I think that's what usually seems to stand out to me is

We'll be talking and it'll be, oh, it'll be some weird little detail that was missed in the building and the design. It's not that the whole fixture is wrong. That happens sometimes, but it's usually just some little detail missed. so, which is what got me to thinking about what I wanted to talk to you about, because we could talk about lighting for hours. And I know that you and some of your team did a presentation called 10 Surprising Things That Impact

And I felt like as I did look through that, kind of understand what we were talking about today. And it seems like some of the things like we might walk into a restaurant and be like, oh my goodness, why did they do that?

Lisa (06:15)

Right, a lot of times, like you said, it's about opportunities missed too.

Todd (06:20)

And so we'll get into the reasons why this happens and how do we avoid that? So I guess, and maybe I just answered my first question here, what was the impetus for you creating this presentation?

Lisa (06:31)

You know, it was really about getting across the point that lighting is not something that is just tacked on or added to a building, but that it's got to be integral to the entire design. And so we present that to interior designers and architects ⁓ because it's the 10 most surprising things which impact lighting. But our working title was, Should You Tell Your Lighting Designer?

So to tell your lighting designer if you change the color of the room. lighting is integral to all of those other decisions that are made during design.

Todd (07:11)

Okay, well let's step back in a minute and just kind of make sure we're all on the same page here because you know a lot of our audience are contractors and installers both low and medium voltage or low voltage and medium voltage. So we know we're kind of where they come in on the project lifecycle you know at various times. So where do you come in as a lighting designer in the project lifecycle?

Lisa (07:34)

That's an interesting question that has evolved over the years for lighting designers because it used to be, like I said, lighting was tacked on or almost an afterthought and lighting designers would get brought in pretty late during design when there was a realization that, we don't know what to do with this. And so as a profession, we worked over the years to encourage people to bring us in earlier, at least during schematic design.

But truthfully, then there's a lot of iteration and design changes that are still happening during schematic design. So we're not usually there during programming or pre-design, or if we are, we don't have a very large role. There might be some building, siting, orientation questions that would impact daylight or lighting. But otherwise, ⁓ somewhere during schematic design or design development. when we know what shape the building is, it's time to start talking about.

the lighting design.

Todd (08:37)

Well, think it seems like maybe we talked to contractors about this and they're working with distributors. The earlier you can get everyone involved in the project, the better. It's tough to do and it causes problems. But it just seems like it helps everybody in the whole project.

Lisa (08:52)

Sure, I mean, I just said something about the presentation, the 10 most surprising things. It's about integration and collaboration.

Todd (09:01)

Right. So when you do this presentation, what are you hoping, and I guess the listeners here today, we're not going to cover all 10, so don't worry everybody, I picked out some of my favorites out of the list, but what are you hoping listeners or viewers of your presentation take away from it? Is it integration or is there something else?

Lisa (09:20)

⁓ My favorite comment I got one time after giving the presentation was, I never realized how much went into your work. I never realized how complicated it is. I never realized how many things you're thinking about when you're selecting the lighting for a project. So I would say, you I hate this, but I kind of want people to realize lighting is a little more complex.

than they think it is. And I would be remiss if I also didn't mention, we're really talking a lot on my podcast and in the industry about how lighting is one of the four primary visual professionals working on an architectural project. There's an architect, an interior designer, a landscape architect, and then there's a lighting designer. The other professionals, the structural engineer, I mean, those all.

they may impact the way a space looks, but they wouldn't necessarily be considered a visual professional.

Todd (10:27)

Yeah, like the McCann roles.

Lisa (10:29)

Yeah, electrical.

Todd (10:32)

So I want to work my way down from the ceiling to the other parts of the room that you're lighting. How does the ceiling grid impact the lighting of a space?

Lisa (10:46)

That one maybe isn't even all that surprising. The ceiling pattern, the pattern of the grid impacts where the lights have to go. We all understand that kind of intuitively. But today it's really popular to do a lot of these recessed long lines of light. And those things have to integrate with the actual T-bars of those ceiling grids. And so what will happen sometimes during design is

or maybe even during construction to save money. Maybe we go from a fancier slot grid to just a standard 15, 16th tee and those linear lines of light, some of them are designed to match and hang onto those grids. And if you don't change the lighting spec, when you change that tee grid, the light's not gonna fit. So it's just, you you've got to, it's one of those things that you wouldn't expect.

that it impacts the lighting specification, but it does.

Todd (11:47)

So yours are not the ones that actually hang from the grid, not the ones that are in a grid. recessed, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Lisa (11:53)

Just a regular old recess linear ⁓ has to integrate with those T's.

Todd (12:00)

Yeah. Anything else about the grid that changes the way lighting looks?

Lisa (12:07)

I mean, you know, there are there's there's the tegular and there are all kinds of complexities and integrations with the grid. We also once had not this isn't a grid story, but we also once had a project where the actual ceiling tiles instead of being white were blue. And so then that impacts that's that's the color question that the reflectance impacts how much light we have to put into the space.

And sometimes even when you measure the same amount of having less reflectance off the ceiling impacts how someone feels. Even if the meter measures the same amount of light, the person sitting there may say, well, I don't have as much light because my ceiling is blue or brown or black.

Todd (12:51)

Yeah, and seems like to me, and I know this has been around a long time, but it seems like a lot of the fixtures also bounce a lot of light off the ceiling purposely, right, indirect or other purposes. that would, it's white. It's going to reflect quite differently than a blue. So, all right, let's keep talking about, this kind of touches on what you just mentioned here a little bit, but moving from the grid to the materials that make up that grid, as well as the walls and the floors. And I'm talking about the textures.

that make up all the services that may not always be called out in drawings, I'm guessing. So what kind of issues come up when you're not aware of the makeup of the services you'll

Lisa (13:29)

It takes a little diligence, but honestly, if there's an interior designer on the project, they have called out every surface and what it will be. But we have to go look for that. And it's certainly more helpful if they want to volunteer it. Hey, this surface is this surface has a sheen. And so the light's going to bounce off of that differently than this matte surface over here or this one. You know, we're using a felt wall and.

A lot of people have had the experience of grazing a wall with light. And if it's just a regular painted wall and it's not a level side finish, you see all the bumps in the wall that you don't want to see. You want that wall to look smooth. And so if your light is close to it, grazing it, that looks great on an intentionally textured surface, like a brick or something, but it looks kind of awful on a drywall.

painted surface. So those are the kinds of materials that we need to know about because that will affect where we actually position the light to make the space look.

Todd (14:37)

You talk a little bit more about color and maybe other ways it might impact lighting that people just don't think about because they're thinking about other things.

Lisa (14:46)

Yeah, I have a couple of stories about color and texture from early in my career. very early in my career, I designed an ice rink and the rink itself looked great. The ice is white, the lights reflected. It was beautiful. But no one told me and I didn't do my diligence as a young designer that on the supporting spaces, the little hallways leading to and from the rink, that the walls and ceilings were black.

and the floor was maroon. It was so dark. so, yes, the reflectance of those surfaces, I mean, you know, a little bit of white paint would have solved the lighting problem. It's not always a lighting problem.

Todd (15:32)

But if you'd known about that, you would have adjusted your design. Exactly. Because obviously they wanted that for, and I can imagine why they wanted that, but yeah, that's interesting.

Lisa (15:40)

You can

see that in an ice rink. It's not even surprising, it was to me as a young, young designer.

Todd (15:46)

I think some of these that just kind of occurred to while you're talking is like, you know, it's not like someone's doing this stuff intentionally. It's we're all kind of focused, especially on a construction project. There's so many, so many things happening. Like you're focused on lying design. You're not necessarily thinking about, you know, all the other trade. I mean, the contractors deal with it all the time. Another trade doesn't think about what that other trade needs. So ⁓ yeah.

Lisa (16:11)

silos. People get into their silos.

Todd (16:14)

And so this is just kind of a way we're just gonna try to knock on that silo. Hey, open up the silo.

Lisa (16:19)

You know, but you said we're focused on lighting design, but really a big part of our job is breaking out of those silos because we know how much it matters, how much lighting impacts those other disciplines and how much they impact us.

Todd (16:35)

On the contractor side, they are talking a lot about BIM drawings now and trying to integrate that into their construction. ⁓ Would like surfaces and does that kind of stuff come up in like, like, how deep do have to dig for that? Or is it even readily available?

Lisa (16:49)

There's a whole level of design that people do their BIM to and most of the time they don't take it to that level. So we've got shapes, but we don't have finishes in our Revit drawings. I have another texture story. This wasn't my mistake, but it was something I noticed ⁓ again from that same era early in my young career. I remember ⁓ a movie theater bathroom.

that had black polished tile floors. A polished black tile is almost identical to a mirror. And so yes, I noticed sitting in a stall with the light behind my head, pink neon as I recall, that I could look down and like I could do my makeup. It was a perfect mirror. It was so great. But I also then noticed that I could look down and over into the next stall and see the next person perfectly. So.

That's an interior design note more than a lighting note, but I do try to point out ⁓ that we probably don't want polished tiles in a bathroom. Public rest.

Todd (17:58)

So let's work our way down the walls. And now I want to look at the millwork or built-in furniture. ⁓ Certainly this is called out in many drawings, but what complications are coming up here that you're running across?

Lisa (18:10)

Well, certainly when we are integrating lights into the millwork, say we have an under cabinet light or a light in a toe kick, that's clear. We're going to have to be coordinated. We're going to have to have the millwork drawings, maybe even the shop drawings and be very clear about where the light goes in those places. But the one that gets me ⁓ that really bothered me was

When we had our design done for, it was some shelves high on a wall in a coffee shop. And then at some point, somebody shortened the millwork. Our light was centered over the shelves, but when they shortened it, it was no longer centered, right? So it's just one of those like, ⁓ you know, nobody thought to tell the lighting designer that the millwork size had changed during construction. the contractor didn't think,

⁓ that light was supposed to be center, you know, they put the light where it was on the...

Todd (19:14)

I mean they have to make their decisions at some level, right? They can't just be all the way. Yeah, so that's interesting. that's why construction is so fun because it's so very like, they should, you know, it's like, yeah, but there's so many steps to do and things, know, so that's fascinating. So that would just need to come up. But some of that stuff is pretty easy to change. Well, I can see you would never hear about it until you're out there doing an aiming or something like, oh, okay.

Lisa (19:42)

Final punch list. that light is six inches away from where it really should be. But does anybody care that much to move it and patch it?

Todd (19:54)

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Talking about moving a little bit from mill work and let's talk about the partitions that are in so many spaces now, mainly offices. So talk to me about the impacts of a seemingly innocent change. We're going to go from three feet to three and a half feet or five feet or whatever of partitions and other kind of dividers and spaces.

Lisa (20:41)

Yeah, sure. In an office, since that's your first example, but I have another one. But in an office partition, if that partition gets higher, then you're getting closer to the light. And if you start interrupting where the spread of light goes, you're going to cast a shadow. And inevitably, you're going to cast that shadow on Betty's desk, who's older and can't see as well. Betty.

than on Julie's desk who has 20 year old eyes and she would be fine with the shadow. ⁓ But what's funny about that is often when they do ask us about taller partitions, sometimes they'll say, what if the top foot is frosted glass? And so that one just kind of, I have to say, well, even if it's frosted glass, it's casting a shadow. It'll give you a little perceived brightness up there, which will be nice, but it's still gonna cast a shadow.

Todd (21:37)

Yeah, I feel like I almost feel like I know you have another example you want to talk about but I almost feel like office spaces are pretty tough to light honestly because like we'll talk we'll touch on the the end user themselves Betty and Julie in just a minute but I mean we could be sitting right next to each other and I prefer in the same age I prefer lighting differently and what I'm working on but you know I'm editing doing stuff like that

I like my lights to be real dim, but you're maybe working on a drawing where you're looking at some physical materials and the screen. Maybe you need brighter lights. Man, it is just tough. basically, you're going, not you, but just put lights up. It's fine. Because you can see. OK. And then you throw windows in, natural daylighting. Yeah, that's a pretty complex case.

Lisa (22:23)

It's been a long discussion in the industry about people have tried to have, you know, remotes and individually controlled lights so that you control the light above your head and I control the light above my head. it's just it's it's been ongoing. think probably the best solution and the most energy efficient solution is to overall light the space to a little bit lower level and then give everyone a task lamp so they can add their own personal light level. OK, yeah.

And then you mentioned windows. mean, then you're talking about daylight harvesting and there are energy codes that even require that. And so you're turning off the lights near the windows. That's a whole thing. So yeah. The other partition that happens is in restrooms. And so I know I like talking about bathrooms.

Todd (23:14)

Title of the episode, restroom.

Lisa (23:17)

Okay.

So yeah, not to talk about bathrooms too much, but there are different partition heights in bathrooms. Sometimes they go up really close or even all the way to a ceiling. And sometimes they don't. And so often lighting designers are given the plans here, design the space, and I don't have a three-dimensional understanding. And so it's something I have to warn our young designers. Don't assume that that partition drops two feet from the ceiling like your school did.

it may only drop six inches from the ceiling. so again, with the light being able to have room to spread out and reach all the places it needs to reach.

Todd (23:52)

So let's focus on really the ultimate people we should all be thinking about in all of our lines of business in this whole life cycle. And that's the end user of the space. what are a couple of things, I'll just say it, age and task is what I'm thinking of, but there might be other things. But the ultimate end user of the space, why does this matter when you talk about the design of lighting?

Lisa (24:15)

When I was a young designer and I would give presentations about light, I would always talk about, you need more light to see as you get older. And that was very academic for me. And now, hello, it's true. It's really true. You need more light to see as you get older. And so it is something that we think about in lighting design. There's kind of a median age that a typical space, certainly an office, would be designed for.

But if you're designing a space that's all, say, in elementary school and it's all young students, you can actually lower the light levels overall, make sure you give those teachers a task light. ⁓ Or what happens a lot in healthcare environments, you might be designing a space that's primarily older people and you need to raise or elevate the overall light levels for the general population of who's using the space. So we do want to think about.

the ultimate end user in terms of age for sure. ⁓ And visual acuity, visual ability.

Todd (25:22)

What's acuity? mean, visual acuity. ⁓

Lisa (25:25)

the

how well you can see, how sharp things appear to you. So if someone's visually impaired, more light is part of it, but also glare with senior citizens, they're more sensitive to glare. And so we wanna shield sources in their living spaces. And then I know this isn't really the place for this maybe, but I don't wanna miss talking about, I kind of said it earlier,

with the ice rink, it's not always a lighting solution. Sometimes it's just color and contrast. so maybe stairs, for example, if you're going down some stairs, either having the edge in a different contrasting color or marking the beginning and the end. Like we can do so much with light, but some things really do come down to the color selections.

Todd (26:20)

So things out inside of your realm maybe a little bit too.

Lisa (26:24)

Well, it's all part of the lighting design. All right. We're not selling this. We're not selling the lights. We're helping design the space for the lighting. So whether that's daylight or whether that's picking the colors in the room, I have an example of a space where we the original concept was for a backlit. ⁓ It's a whiskey bar and it was this.

This was supposed to be this backlit wall that the bottles sit in front of. it glows through them. And in the end, we didn't have either budget or space for that. And so we ended up grazing the walls, painting them a really warm, actually it ended up being orange. So we took the light source, which was a really super warm 2200 Kelvin source, and we held it up against three different paint chips.

Todd (26:56)

You imagine,

Lisa (27:19)

And if I hadn't had the light source, I would have picked one that was sort of a warm yellow, know, whiskey bourbon color. But the right color paint chip was actually a bright orange, like extension cord orange. ⁓ But with the 2200 Kelvin, that made it look the most like the original renderings of the backlit walls. So we do get involved with helping pick paint colors.

Todd (27:31)

Thank you.

That's cool. mean, yeah. then so that again to me just talks about just more integration, coordination, communication with like, what's it? What are you trying? What are you shooting for here? You know, like what are you trying to understand? And yeah.

Lisa (27:56)

And that was well into construction. So we got involved, you know, at schematic design, like we talked about earlier, but we stay involved to the very, end.

Todd (28:05)

I want to touch on something super quick here. You kind of brought it up and it kind of piqued my attention. You said we don't sell the lights. So just talk about real quick your role in the product selection.

Lisa (28:21)

Yes, there are so many people involved with the specification and sale of a lighting product. And as independent professional lighting designers, we will specify it. we work with reps who help us, you know, they answer questions about their products. They keep us informed about their products. But

We ultimately aren't bound to any one product line or any one rep. So we do, but we do specify what we believe is the best value, the best quality, the best product for the owner's needs. So we need to absolutely have an understanding of everything like you said earlier, whether it's the age or whatever it is about the owner and then everything about the space and we're picking that product. ⁓

and specifying it, that then the contractor will take and purchase from a distributor.

Todd (29:24)

Okay, so make sure I understood what you're, you're choosing the best thing for that space within their budget and all that and then ultimately, yeah, someone else buys it from someone.

Lisa (29:36)

Exactly, So we do typically get a chance to review what's being purchased to check it against what was the intent, the design intent.

Todd (29:48)

Yeah, because I do know that people will change what spec, not just in lighting and a lot of things in the building. So I know you prefer that not to happen, but like you said, you get a chance to see that. that's cool. That helps us understand where you are in that lifecycle. So we do talk to lot of contractors here. And I just wanted to get your perspective.

What's the best way to work with contractors? Because you're all very separated in the life cycle when you're involved, though you do get there when it's happening. I know you work with contractors and you're aiming and doing things like that. But are there ways that ⁓ you think you could all work better together? And I say electrical contractors because lighting is electrical. And so that's who you're dealing with. You're not dealing with the HVAC people. So any tips to contractors out there or things you wish would work better between the two of you?

Lisa (30:40)

wish we got to talk to each other more and earlier. And I really try to encourage our team to put a lot of notes explaining the design intent, because I've heard the same thing from contractors who have said, ⁓ I didn't know that's what you were trying to do. So if we can really express in our documents what we're trying to do, but even better, if we can have walkthroughs, if we can get to talk to each other about the design intent earlier.

before all the decisions are made, everything's installed. That's what I wish we could do.

Todd (31:17)

You know, you see that some of the latest technology, the research on the impacts of lighting, what's peaking your interest right now as you're reading and hearing about the future of lighting? Just a couple of them to kind of pique people's interest there.

Lisa (31:28)

What I think people will find really interesting is that the IES has recently published its first document sort of connecting light to physical well-being. So for the first time, we're not just talking about light foreseeing, but we're talking about light and how it impacts one's health. So that's definitely coming. mean, and you've probably all heard about circadian lighting for a while now, but that's

Todd (31:50)

Hmm.

Lisa (31:58)

that's starting to really, ⁓ there's science that's behind it now and there are recommendations being made for the amounts of light that people need at different times of day. So that's definitely exciting. I've been watching it for a while. It doesn't feel new to me, but it is, it is new. I also get excited about, there's a ⁓ organization called lightjustice.org, but there's this,

This movement or almost reminder, earlier we were talking about the end users of the space and the ultimate end user and their aids, right? But there's also this thinking about lighting for all of the people that are going to use the space. And what kind of lighting are we putting in a public park? And is it the same in all parts of the city? And that one, you know, that one's pretty easy to wrap my head around, but the...

The part that's super interesting to me is how about in a restaurant? In a restaurant, we all spend our big budget in the part where people eat, right? And then there's what we all refer to as back of house, restaurants, hotels, a lot of spaces. And so ⁓ just a reminder that we are also, that back of house place is where someone's spending their whole eight hour workday.

You know, the restaurant, we're going to go spend an hour downstairs, but back of house, someone's spending all day down there every day. And so making sure that we're providing quality light for them and not just putting the cheapest thing that we can put back there. you know, I don't know if it's reallocation of budgets necessarily, but still understandably, maybe a lower budget space. But we can do good things with lower budget products.

Todd (33:50)

You don't have to be high-end products. can do well. Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest. You walk…I want to it's getting better, but I know if it is. But I've walked back a house in places and it looks like a horror movie. back in the day. Yeah, flickering. It's green. You're like, what is happening here? And I've seen that though. And sometimes you don't even think about it. You can see, right? It's not dark. But yeah, do I want to work in that when it's like…

Lisa (34:16)

It's just, yeah, thinking about all the humans. And so, yeah, I think that's movement that's really, really coming into its own. And it's interesting.

Todd (34:25)

I mean, that stuff, you know, haven't really touched on, but you and I've talked about it so much. feel like we talked about it today, but it's impacting, you know, how tired you are, headaches, ⁓ you know, all kinds of things that it's then impacting my work. And then I'm not delivering the best service to, you know, my team and the restaurant and now the customers, you know, just kind of all that.

Lisa (34:44)

And you have to take it all the way there to the customer or to get the, you know, it all follows the money. So ultimately you have to, you have to talk about the final product, but it does matter.

Todd (34:56)

All right, I like to wrap up every show with the why of what we do. So what motivates you to do this day in and day out and what keeps you excited and passionate about what you do?

Lisa (35:08)

I remember the first time someone asked me that question and I was so proud of my answer because sometimes I don't think on my feet and it takes me a second to think of it. ⁓ But it's the people and we were just talking about it. What am I excited about that's coming is how we can give better lighting for the people in the back of house that we maybe weren't thinking about before. It's the people that we're lighting for. It's community engagement for park projects.

It's ⁓ working on a new residential project and walking around with that client in their home and finding out how they want to use the space. it's the relationships that are created. It's the people. It's, you know, we said earlier, I want to talk to the contractors more. I have had some great relationships with electrical contractors and that's what makes it fun. It's the people. It's the people on my team here at RBLD.

That's what gets me up every day.

Todd (36:10)

Well, great. Hey, Lisa, thank you for inviting me to your workspace and coming on to the show. We've been talking about this since I started that I wanted to talk to a professional award winning lighting designer. And here we are. So thank you. Yeah, there could have been some problems later on if I pick some else. But no, thank you so much for coming on. It's been fun to work with you in this way differently.

Well, that was my conversation with Lisa Reed, founder, principal and CEO of Reed Burkett Lighting Design. You can connect with Lisa and what she is working on by heading to the links in the show notes. I would love to hear the challenges and successes you've had working with various designers, not just lighting on a project. You can comment on Spotify, YouTube or send me an email at podcast at graybar.com. Hey, if you enjoyed this episode, you can help us grow by subscribing and leaving a five star rating on your favorite podcast player and YouTube.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Keeping the Lights On. We'll see you next time.

What advice would you give to 18-year-old Lisa?

Lisa (37:19)

Well, obviously I would say that Todd guy's okay. He's going to work out. But besides that, besides that, it would be the same thing. I would tell my 55 year old self probably. I really, everything, everything's great. It all, it all worked out. There will always be challenges, but it's okay.

Todd (37:26)

Great answer.

Lisa (37:48)

It's hard in the moment, but hindsight, it's always fun.

Todd (37:55)

be fine.